The Trinity & Mimesis
ME > Consider the following:
So here is I am “floating a theologoumenon”. This is speculation on my part.
~ The Father is source or font of all being. I.e. He is the origin of the Son and the Spirit. They are ontological co-equal, but He is in some sense prior to the Son and the Spirit.
~ The Son proceeds from the Father and as such is subject to the Father.
~ The Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son and so the Spirit are subject to both the Father and the Son (Filioque).
The pastor/preacher’s role is akin to that of the Father. The word proceeds from the pastor. The Word proceeds from the Father. The Father also rules over all things authoritatively.
The elder’s role is akin to the Son. The elder is under the authority of the pastor (contra your/Strauch and contra the presby distinction bec it does not go far enough). The elder can teach, counsel and act as a go-between between a lay person and pastor. I.e. intercede.
The deacon’s role is similar to the Holy Spirit. I.e. working in the operations of the Church. E.g. administration of gifts to equip, overseeing the operations of the church.
~ tentative.
ChatGPT > Your analogy between the roles in the church and the Trinity is interesting and provides a unique perspective on church structure. Here’s a brief reflection on your comparison:
Pastor as the Father: You compare the pastor to the Father as the origin and authoritative figure in the church, which makes sense in the context of pastoral leadership and teaching. The idea that the pastor is the source of the "Word" in preaching reflects the Father's role in generating the Son.
Elder as the Son: You draw a parallel between the elder and the Son, emphasizing the elder's role as subordinate to the pastor but still possessing a significant role in teaching and interceding. This reflects the Son’s relationship to the Father—proceeding from and being subject to the Father while acting in a distinct role.
Deacon as the Holy Spirit: The deacon's role in administration and service aligns with the Holy Spirit's role in working within the church and equipping the body. The Holy Spirit’s involvement in the practical outworking of the church's mission resonates with the deacon’s responsibilities.
Your comparison might benefit from clarifying the limits of the analogy, especially considering that theological roles and ecclesiastical functions do not always map perfectly onto one another. The roles in church governance are human institutions and might differ significantly from the theological and ontological distinctions within the Trinity.
ME > Mimesis and supervenience are distinct philosophical concepts, but they can be related in some contexts.
Mimesis
Mimesis is a concept rooted in Greek philosophy and literature, particularly associated with Aristotle. It refers to the imitation or representation of reality in art and literature. In a broader sense, it involves the way art and narratives reflect, imitate, or represent aspects of the real world. For example, a novel or painting might mimic human emotions, societal structures, or natural landscapes.
Supervenience
Supervenience is a concept from philosophy of mind and metaphysics. It describes a relationship between two sets of properties or phenomena where one set (the supervenient properties) is dependent on another set (the subvenient properties). For instance, mental states are said to supervene on physical states of the brain—changes in mental states depend on changes in physical states.
Relation to Your Illustration
Your illustration of the roles in the church as analogous to the Trinity could be seen as a case of mimesis if you regard it as an attempt to imitate or represent the theological relationships within the church's organizational structure. You’re drawing on the structure of the Trinity to mirror or reflect the hierarchical and functional roles within a church.
However, supervenience isn't directly applicable here, as it involves a dependency relationship between different kinds of properties or phenomena rather than an analogy or representation. In your case, the analogy between the roles in the church and the Trinity is more about mimetic representation—using a theological model to reflect or illustrate ecclesiastical functions—than about the dependency relationship between different levels of properties.
ME > What is an epiphenomenon?
An epiphenomenon is a concept in philosophy and psychology referring to a secondary phenomenon that arises as a byproduct of a primary process but does not itself have any causal influence on the primary process. Essentially, it's a phenomenon that accompanies another event or process but doesn't affect it.
Key Points About Epiphenomena:
Byproduct: An epiphenomenon is a secondary effect or feature that emerges from a primary process but does not alter or influence that process
One-Way, One-Directional Nature of Epiphenomena
Unidirectional Influence: Epiphenomena are considered to arise from a primary process (e.g., physical brain states) but do not affect or influence that primary process. This means that while the primary process causes the epiphenomenon, the epiphenomenon does not cause changes in the primary process. The influence flows only in one direction—from the primary process to the epiphenomenon.
Byproduct: The epiphenomenon is essentially a byproduct of the primary process. It emerges due to the primary process but remains causally impotent with respect to the primary process itself. For example, consciousness (as an epiphenomenon) arises from brain activity, but it does not alter or impact brain activity.
In conservative Presbyterian churches, such as those in the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA), the distinctions between roles like ruling elder, teaching elder, and deacon are indeed significant, and understanding these distinctions can clarify their respective functions and authority within the church.
Ruling Elder vs. Teaching Elder
Teaching Elder: Often referred to as the pastor or minister, the teaching elder's primary role is preaching, teaching, and providing pastoral care. They are responsible for the spiritual leadership and doctrinal teaching of the congregation. They have the authority to administer the sacraments (e.g., communion and baptism) and often serve as the primary leader in worship and church functions.
Ruling Elder: Ruling elders are elected by the congregation to assist in the governance of the church and provide pastoral oversight, but they are not primarily responsible for preaching or teaching. Their role is more focused on administrative and decision-making aspects, and they help in the shepherding of the congregation through visitation, counseling, and other forms of oversight.
Role vs. Authority: The distinction between ruling elders and teaching elders is primarily role-based rather than authority-based. Both types of elders share in the governance of the church, but their responsibilities and functions differ. Teaching elders typically have a specialized focus on preaching and teaching, while ruling elders focus on governance and pastoral care. However, in the context of church authority, both have an equal say in the decisions of the session (the governing body of the church).
Elder vs. Deacon
Elder: Elders (both ruling and teaching) are involved in the spiritual and administrative oversight of the church. They are part of the session, which is responsible for the overall governance and spiritual guidance of the congregation.
Deacon: Deacons have a distinct role focused on service and ministry to the physical and practical needs of the congregation. Their responsibilities include caring for the poor, managing church resources, and handling logistical matters related to church life. Deacons do not participate in the session or in the governance of the church but are crucial in supporting the church's mission through their service.
Hard and Fast Distinction: The distinction between elders and deacons is more rigid in terms of their roles and functions. Elders are involved in governance and spiritual oversight, while deacons focus on practical service. The roles are complementary but separate, and there is typically no overlap in responsibilities.
Summary
In summary, within conservative Presbyterian churches like the PCA:
- The distinction between ruling and teaching elders is primarily based on role rather than authority. Both types of elders share in the governance of the church but have different areas of focus.
- The distinction between elders and deacons is more clearly defined, with elders handling governance and spiritual oversight, and deacons focusing on service and practical needs. The roles are distinct and non-overlapping.
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